7 replies to this topic

[rayliner]

HI. We just bought a new 2004 Challenger X from the dealer. We took it to the Colorado River, and on its 3rd day and 6.3 hours (following break-in instructions - no high RPM's, varying speeds, etc.), we were towing an 8-year old on a kneeboard when the boat stopped. It was as though someone had pulled out the key. We checked the oil and gas (more than 1/2 tank of gas, more than 2/3 oil). From what we could tell, any instruments running through the ignition switch were dead. No power to the starter, when we turned on the key the warning buzzer did NOT sound, and the fuel gauge dit NOT read anything - sure give-aways of no power through the ignition switch. The lanyard was in correctly, and we reseated it several times for good measure.
The blower, lights, horn, radio, etc worked just fine, but none of those go through the ignition switch. We had no diagram of the wiring for the ignition switch, and the back of the switch is epoxied so you cannot test wires without stripping them anyway. We found fuses behind the main shutoff in the engine compartment. They were all good; we swapped them around for good measures; still no power. After a few hours we managed to get back upriver with a lot of help from kind strangers, tried it in our garage at the river with no success. We towed it back home to Los Angeles. Before we took it to the dealer, we tried it again; no success.
When we called the dealer a few days later, they said it ran fine for them. They claim they did not need to do anything. Unfortunately, the service provider abbreviated our lengthy discussion into a half-sentence of "no power to engine" on the service request, so the techs never did much checking on our electrical system. They interpreted the ticket to mean the engine wasn't performing well, not that it had no spark.
Since the dealer didn't understand the original problem, and it started working miraculously without any fuse replacements, wire tightening, etc., and since they never checked for a bad connection in some hard-to-reach user accessible area, we're concerned it will occur again. (There's nothing like getting stuck downriver in 110 degree heat with 3 kids under 9... that's why we got the new boat.)
My questions are:
Has anyone experienced something like this?
Does anyone have a wiring schematic of the color coding of the ignition switch?

[jchance]

rayliner:

We traded in a 2004 Islandia that ran perfectly for a 2004 Challenger X because of gas usage and the fact that the Islandia was very difficult to load onto the trailer. It was really just more boat than we needed.

We started off loving the Challenger X, but on day 2 of usage, we had a problem similar to yours. We were going across a small bay on Brownwood lake and the boat just died. It was as though it was starved for gas. When we tried to start it again, it tries to turn over, but acts like it is out of gas. It will not start. However, after being towed in and letting the boat sit for 1-2 hours, it starts just fine.

We took it back to the dealership where we were told the pins in the wiring harness had come loose and everything else on the computer checked out ok.

Took it back to Brownwood lake the following weekend where the enitre scenario replayed itself, except no one would give us a tow. We swam the boat for about 1 1/2 hours until it would start again.

Back to the dealer - this time they replaced spark plug wires and were sure that they had it fixed.

Yesterday, it died on us again. We probably burned up the starter in frustration, but the boat would not start and stay running at all this time. Called the dealership again this morning...

Are you still having problems? If not, what was done to correct your problem? What dealer do you use?

Thanks.

[rayliner]

rayliner:

We traded in a 2004 Islandia that ran perfectly for a 2004 Challenger X because of gas usage and the fact that the Islandia was very difficult to load onto the trailer. It was really just more boat than we needed.

We started off loving the Challenger X, but on day 2 of usage, we had a problem similar to yours. We were going across a small bay on Brownwood lake and the boat just died. It was as though it was starved for gas. When we tried to start it again, it tries to turn over, but acts like it is out of gas. It will not start. However, after being towed in and letting the boat sit for 1-2 hours, it starts just fine.

We took it back to the dealership where we were told the pins in the wiring harness had come loose and everything else on the computer checked out ok.

Took it back to Brownwood lake the following weekend where the enitre scenario replayed itself, except no one would give us a tow. We swam the boat for about 1 1/2 hours until it would start again.

Back to the dealer - this time they replaced spark plug wires and were sure that they had it fixed.

Yesterday, it died on us again. We probably burned up the starter in frustration, but the boat would not start and stay running at all this time. Called the dealership again this morning...

Are you still having problems? If not, what was done to correct your problem? What dealer do you use?

Thanks.

we've only had the boat out once since, and it ran the entire weekend without problems. Howver, our problem is different than yours for sure. We had no electrical power. The starter wouldn't turn over at all, and all elctrical running through the starter switch was dead. It was either the switch itself, or the computer was not supplying power to the switch (I would guess it was the computer, or a loose wire, but I cannot tell for sure.)
With yours, I would think that the fuel filter is partially clogged, or there is sediment in your tank. I had the same problem with a classic Mustang I had. After running for a while, sediment would get sucked up against the screen in the tank. Eventually enough sediment would block off the scrren and the car would die as though it was out of gas. After an hour or so, the suction wold finally lessen enough that the sediment would fall away from the screen, and the car would run again for a while.

Let me know when you solve your problem. I'll be sure to post any further info about my problem when my situation changes.

[LandLord]

rayliner:

We traded in a 2004 Islandia that ran perfectly for a 2004 Challenger X because of gas usage and the fact that the Islandia was very difficult to load onto the trailer.  It was really just more boat than we needed.

We started off loving the Challenger X, but on day 2 of usage, we had a problem similar to yours.  We were going across a small bay on Brownwood lake and the boat just died.  It was as though it was starved for gas.  When we tried to start it again, it tries to turn over, but acts like it is out of gas.  It will not start.  However, after being towed in and letting  the boat sit for 1-2 hours, it starts just fine.

We took it back to the dealership where we were told the pins in the wiring harness had come loose and everything else on the computer checked out ok.

Took it back to Brownwood lake the following weekend where the enitre scenario replayed itself, except no one would give us a tow.  We swam the boat for about 1 1/2 hours until it would start again. 

Back to the dealer - this time they replaced spark plug wires and were sure that they had it fixed.

Yesterday, it died on us again.  We probably burned up the starter in frustration, but the boat would not start and stay running at all this time.  Called the dealership again this morning...

Are you still having problems?  If not, what was done to correct your problem?  What dealer do you use?

Thanks.

we've only had the boat out once since, and it ran the entire weekend without problems. Howver, our problem is different than yours for sure. We had no electrical power. The starter wouldn't turn over at all, and all elctrical running through the starter switch was dead. It was either the switch itself, or the computer was not supplying power to the switch (I would guess it was the computer, or a loose wire, but I cannot tell for sure.)
With yours, I would think that the fuel filter is partially clogged, or there is sediment in your tank. I had the same problem with a classic Mustang I had. After running for a while, sediment would get sucked up against the screen in the tank. Eventually enough sediment would block off the scrren and the car would die as though it was out of gas. After an hour or so, the suction wold finally lessen enough that the sediment would fall away from the screen, and the car would run again for a while.

Let me know when you solve your problem. I'll be sure to post any further info about my problem when my situation changes.

I'm sympathetic tio your problem. I have never suffered a break down [yet] in a jet boat - but a breakdown in a jet-boat would have to be a royal pain in the #$%@.

Unlike propeller driven boats there is absolutely NO STEERING with a broke down jet-boat. Your much like a jelly-fish drifting with the tide, wind or prevailing currents. This has been one of my biggest fears during long offshore trips out in the Gulf of Mexico. I always keep a working and fully charged cell phone with me for just such an occasion. Be sure you have [2] paddles and an anchor with a long rope.

My dealership experiences have been similar - they have a "throw money at it" philosophy and are not the greatest troubleshooters. Very few SeaDoo mechanics or technicians own jet-boats.

Keep your fuel filter changed, keep the gas tank full and put in fuel treatment every other tank full.

I'm curious did your being towed in flood or otherwise damage your engine? How long was the tow? How fast? {mph?}

JEFF L : )

[rayliner]

rayliner:

We traded in a 2004 Islandia that ran perfectly for a 2004 Challenger X because of gas usage and the fact that the Islandia was very difficult to load onto the trailer.  It was really just more boat than we needed.

We started off loving the Challenger X, but on day 2 of usage, we had a problem similar to yours.  We were going across a small bay on Brownwood lake and the boat just died.  It was as though it was starved for gas.  When we tried to start it again, it tries to turn over, but acts like it is out of gas.  It will not start.  However, after being towed in and letting  the boat sit for 1-2 hours, it starts just fine.

We took it back to the dealership where we were told the pins in the wiring harness had come loose and everything else on the computer checked out ok.

Took it back to Brownwood lake the following weekend where the enitre scenario replayed itself, except no one would give us a tow.  We swam the boat for about 1 1/2 hours until it would start again. 

Back to the dealer - this time they replaced spark plug wires and were sure that they had it fixed.

Yesterday, it died on us again.  We probably burned up the starter in frustration, but the boat would not start and stay running at all this time.  Called the dealership again this morning...

Are you still having problems?  If not, what was done to correct your problem?  What dealer do you use?

Thanks.

we've only had the boat out once since, and it ran the entire weekend without problems. Howver, our problem is different than yours for sure. We had no electrical power. The starter wouldn't turn over at all, and all elctrical running through the starter switch was dead. It was either the switch itself, or the computer was not supplying power to the switch (I would guess it was the computer, or a loose wire, but I cannot tell for sure.)
With yours, I would think that the fuel filter is partially clogged, or there is sediment in your tank. I had the same problem with a classic Mustang I had. After running for a while, sediment would get sucked up against the screen in the tank. Eventually enough sediment would block off the scrren and the car would die as though it was out of gas. After an hour or so, the suction wold finally lessen enough that the sediment would fall away from the screen, and the car would run again for a while.

Let me know when you solve your problem. I'll be sure to post any further info about my problem when my situation changes.

I'm sympathetic tio your problem. I have never suffered a break down [yet] in a jet boat - but a breakdown in a jet-boat would have to be a royal pain in the #$%@.

Unlike propeller driven boats there is absolutely NO STEERING with a broke down jet-boat. Your much like a jelly-fish drifting with the tide, wind or prevailing currents. This has been one of my biggest fears during long offshore trips out in the Gulf of Mexico. I always keep a working and fully charged cell phone with me for just such an occasion. Be sure you have [2] paddles and an anchor with a long rope.

My dealership experiences have been similar - they have a "throw money at it" philosophy and are not the greatest troubleshooters. Very few SeaDoo mechanics or technicians own jet-boats.

Keep your fuel filter changed, keep the gas tank full and put in fuel treatment every other tank full.

I'm curious did your being towed in flood or otherwise damage your engine? How long was the tow? How fast? {mph?}

JEFF L : )

We didn't need a tow. The Colorado River is only about 400-600 feet wide at its widest. We swam it to shore and some of the kind folks who had houses right there let us use their ramp to put the boat up. We had to get a ride to pick up our rig and trailer.

It is (or was, hopefully) an electrical problem - it had nothing to do with fuel. No electricity to the switch. So it was probably either a loose connection somewhere or a computer problem; I'm not sure what the control box/computer that is mounted on the engine does. I was looking for some online manuals, but they have apparently been removed for legal reasons.


Oh well. Thanks for the response. Happy boating.

[johnv]

I am saddened to hear of your difficulties. It has been a few weeks since your last post, and I hope you have resolved your issues. I am no mechanic by a long stretch, but here is my 2 cents.

You may be entirely correct that it is an electrical issue exclusively. However, although you didn't post your engine type, you are on the Optimax board, so I assume you have the Opti engine. They are extremely sophisticated, and can have mysterious problems. Qualified Opti techs are extremely rare. If you are ready to have it checked out again, I would find a different dealer who had fully trained techs. This could be a long haul to get to. But it may be cheaper than stranding your family for a half day again.

Good luck...

[keviseeb]

Two things we have found as dealer that is VERY important to the Optimax engine running well. First, the fuel has to be very clean with no water or trash. We are very careful to add gas stabilizer in the correct proportions to our boats EACH time we add fuel. This applies to the 05 and earlier Opti equipped Seadoos and all Opti equipped Sugar Sand boats. Fuel filter maintenance IS required on an Opti equipped boat. Secondly, the battery has to be fully chrged. We have found that the electronics on an Opti require lots of cold cranking amps. We use a 27 size battery in Opti equipped boats, 4-Tec and other Mercs get a 24 size battery. I know sometimes it is difficult to find a Mercury Marine that will work on a jet boat but that is always an option to your Seadoo dealer if you are not satisfied with the technicians qualifications.

[rayliner]

Okay, here's the update on our situation. To recap first on the problem, the boat would quit and it acted like there was no electrical power to the ignition switch - no starter, no gauges (radio and lights worked, though). When you turned on the key, the warning buzzer did NOT go on.
As I was stripping the boat of all things valuable for its trip to the dealer, I tried to start it up. It worked, of course. I stuck my head in the engine compartment and started fiddling with the wiring harness. To my suprrise, I was able to duplicate the problem by jiggling the wiring harness around. I did this a few times to make sure it wasn't a coincidence, and that I was actually causing the problem.
When I went to the dealer, I was able to duplicate the problem to the service writer! A few days later he called to tell us he tried to show the service techs, and he could not get it to fail. They somehow conned Mercury into paying for a lake test (the wiring was the problem, and the wiring is not part of the engine- SeaDoo should haved stepped up for that, not Mercury...the boat is still under warranty, so all I cared about was that I did not have to pay for it) But anyway, they took it out to a local lake, and it died on the techs. They were then able to bypass the wiring harness, which finally proved to them where the problem lay. So, they replaced the entire harness that comes off the control box on the engine and goes up towards the front of the boat. We have not had the boat out yet, but I tried to jiggle the wiring to get it to fail, and it never did. I feel confident that they might have fixed this problem. I'll keep my fingers crossed! Enclosed is a photo of the engine compartment. The loom to the left of the control box was what was replaced.

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