32 replies to this topic

[cavitatorhater]

Alright, so we got the boat back from the dealer and they were not able to see anything wrong with the pump. They called Seadoo's tech line and were told to replace the wear ring and reseal the ride plate and the pump. After waiting the few days required to allow the sealant time to finish curing we took it out for about 90 minutes. The thing worked awesome - very impressive. Still had a tiny bit of reasonable cavitation from a dead stop but other that that fine. The thing ran great until we shut it off at loading.

My parents came up for a visit the very next day so we decided to take them out and the friggin' exact same cavitation issue came back right off the trailer! We had a lot more time to figure it out but top speed was literally 22kph which would be around 15mph. It does seem to cavitate less easily if the operator put it into a turn - even with a slight turn a person can grab a few hundred rpm, then a few more and then a little more until finally the boat gets up on plane then wide open throttle is obtainable with a top speed of around 84kph.

Perhaps we have a ventilation issue?? Anyone know a thing or two about that? Or maybe the factory ride plate is very slightly warped and that's why it sealed for a day but then perhaps it lost it's seal??

Taking this boat to a dealer costs me 10 hours of my life due to the significant distance, any helpful insight would be appreciated.

cheers!

[k-dub]

Have you looked at the pump shoe / support? It has little teeth on it that redirect the flow before the water hits the impeller. All of these teeth must be in perfect condition or it will cause significant turbulance that causes the cavitation. The other issue that I would look at is the impeller cone, if it moves forward off the impeller even slightly it will cause turbulence in the flow and cause the cavitation.

Your issue seems very severe, but the situation you described where it worked one day and not the next is consistent with the impeller come backing off.

[k-dub]

Actually the more I thought about it and researched it, I would bet you lost the seal at the pump shoe / rideplate. The dealer probably didn't take all of this apart like they were supposed to in order to reseal it. They probably tried to add sealant from the outside which got you through the first day but ultimately won't hold up.

The rideplate and pump shoe need to come off the boat and get resealed, from what I understand this is a time consuming and sometimes painful job.

[Papineau]

Hi from Papineau,

Any update. I had a 180 se and had similar issue and experience.

I updated to 180sp and currently in the break in period. I thought se might just be a lemon and struck a good deal on an upgrade to the sp. I will be going after Bombardier if the sp has the same problem. If this is the case, dealers and Bombardier should be highlighting this before a sale is completed.

Thanks,

Papineau.

[FJtoy4me]

OK so I have researched the internet forums about this cavitation or ventilation "problem" till blue in the face. I have a brand new (just broke in past the 10 hours) Challenger 180SP with supercharged H.O. 260 engine. My boat has "cavitated" with full throttle at dead stop since new. In fact, it cavitates if I go full throttle up until the craft is doing at least 10 mph. Then the sucker throws you back in your seat at full throttle. Now, I have gotten good at "feathering" the throttle from a stop to about half way for a half second, then 3/4 for another second or so, then full on, and this boat will plane within 2 seconds and be at full speed (close to 50) in under 10 seconds easy. I am very happy with the performance of this thing! However, for awhile, and especially after reading forum after forum, I thought my cavitation issue was a "problem" like everyone else said. Then I got to thinking: this cavitation issue is only on the high performance, high hp boats. And it has been an issue for over a decade now. On countless, and I mean COUNTLESS boats. Has anyone ever stopped to think that just maybe SeaDoo knows what they are doing and that cavitation at full throttle from a standstill is normal as these engines produce more and more power? I mean, why else would they KEEP producing boats with the "problem" if it is truly a "problem?" And selling them!

Now I called 3 separate dealers from two different states right after I knew my boat had full throttle from standstill cavitation, and at the time thinking it was an issue I should be concerned with. ALL 3 had the exact same answer: it is normal. In fact, two of them were kind enought to detail the reasoning: simply put, they said it is like too much power in a car -- full throttle at standstill and you just sit and spin and probably hit the rev limiter until the car gets going or unless you let off. Hmmm, sound familiar? Now I know some may think "wait a minute, how can the pump suck up ALL the lake water? Well of course, it isnt doing that. It is actually "overpowering" the water going in. With high output, at some point the impeller requires more fluid (water) then the fluid can actually flow in. This creates a void in which, you guessed it, air fills, and walah! cavitation. Some will not understand this, and think that water should flow as fast as the impeller throws it. This may be true on the output side of the impeller, but nothing is actually "pushing" the water on the intake side and so it relies on being "forced" in by the boat moving faster until this "forced" intake matches what the pump is demanding.

Simply put, when you floor it on a high powered boat, you demand more water then what is available for a little while until your boat speed starts to "shove" water into the intake. As far as the problem seemingly going away and allowing full throttle when the wheel is turned, I was explained that this is actually caused by some of the back pressure of the pump having to now push water down an angle instead of a straight through, and the back pressure allows the pump to stay full. This is evidenced by the thrust at full lock of the steering wheel at full throttle not quite being as much as going straight.

There is so much on the internet today about these boats having "problems" because you cant full throttle from a standstill. I am one who does NOT think there is a problem. I think engine output numbers have grown to a point that you simply cannot full throttle whenever you want anymore, just like a car with a powerful motor. And I actually think having TOO much power is a "problem" I am proud of! As long as you know how to control it, these boats are some of the highest performing boats the general public can buy!

Just to add my two cents, MT180SP, I think your theory has some serious validity to it and I hadn't thought of the situation in that perspective. My experience has been much like the 'Hot Rod Effect' (hey, I'll have to trademark that! ) in that I need to doo a bit of feathering on the throttle as apposed to straight to WOT. I may have to re-think if I (we) even have a problem or not.

IF that were the case, shouldn't there have been an engineering solution to the boat by now (Seadoo, are you listening?) Is there an aftermarket void to be filled? Like I said, just my two cents.

[VFRDave]

I was out on a demo ride in a 2011 C180 few weeks back, and the sales guy told me the samething. You can't hammer on them out of the hole. Reason why, is the impeller is sort of a general use, to give you useable power at all ranges. He said you could change it out to give better out of the hole but you would lose top end. Dude at work said the same thing with outboards and stern drives, OEMs tend to set things up for a broad range of uses, makin them good at none.

Now not saying this is your problem, but the one we had out, you couldn't open it up all the way until you where over 5mph or so, than it was a rocket ship.

Didn't end up buying the boat as he wanted too much for it, not sure how a 2011 demo is worth $500 less than a 2012 with zero hours on the clock but that's up to him I guess.

[Costa 108sp]

Well i have just put 16 hours on my 180sp and i had took six people on my boat and a couple of times i had accelerated kind of hard and has a bit of cavitation so i had called my friend who is a seadoo tech and works at the marina we had brought the boat from and he said he look in to it.. So today he had came over to the house with a new prop or impeller in his hand ??? So he tells me brp knows about the problem and are trying to fix it !! He had called his teacher(at the brp school ...i guess) and gave him a test impeller .... It is slightly bigger then the org. So tomorrow i will be going for a test r un ... Hope it better !! It wasn't a problem for me but if its a little better I will be happy lol! So i will let u know how it is !!

[J.D.]

I am looking forward to seeing your results Costa. I have taken my boat out twice now since owning it last weekend. The first time it was just me and one other person and it launched pretty well out of the hole with minimal cavitation. Yesterday I had two additional people on board and it had more cavitation than the first time I had taken it out. It wasn't terrible and maybe my expectations are too high. I will need to see what its like on a still piece of water. The current rips through the part of the river I use at about 3-6 knots depending on how much the dams are letting out.

[Costa 108sp]

Wow big improvement !! I had taken out 5 adults yesterday and went 60 mile run ..well 30 mile each way and i noticed right off the bat when i floored it that there was very minimal cavitation ...but but the big differance was that i had the boat doing 50mph with 5 of us on it !The best i ever had the thing going was 46-47 mph with only my wife i on it .

[J.D.]

Sounds like it worked out well for you. Do you have any specs on the new impeller?

[Costa 108sp]

Well on the impeller they had marking hand written 5.21 on each blade and it was polished and it looked like they balanced it .

[cavitatorhater]

little update... I had a few issues with cavitation at the beginning of last year but after having the ride plate resealed a couple times and the wear ring replaced the boat worked awesome - LOVE this boat!!  Very fun boat and the performance is fantastic.  Thanks for your help everyone. 

[vwDavid]

Does anyone have any updated to these C180 255 cavitation issues?

 

I have read this full thread multiple times over the years and I fully understand the perspective that its probably not possible to hammer the throttle from 0 mph, thought for several C180 owners they reportedly can do that. 

 

I am not looking for that, but up on plane, pulling a tube at 5500 rpm and I need to get some speed for a corner, if I hit the throttle I get significant cavitation.

 

If I go 3/4 throttle from dead still I get cavitation. I have to feather the throttle to get on plane. While on plane I still cannot go straight to full throttle. 

 

I find it hard to pull tubers as I can't keep enough speed on the corners.

 

I think I need a new impeller, new wear ring, new carbon seal, new pump seal, check the and re-seal the ride plate, and check the pump shoe teeth.

 

Is there anything else to do to improve the cavitation?