17 replies to this topic

[kathygrace]

Re: 2000 Challenger with Mercury inboard engine, operated around Springfield, Missouri lakes, mild winter weather that drops below freezing at time to 10/20/30 above zero over 3 winter months.
How important it is to change the lower end stator fluid and propulsion end stator fluid? And why?
How many in use hours or what time period should this be done?

I read that the concern is "winterizing", to eliminate water build up freezing, so should this be done pre or post winter before the boat goes back into the water for spring/summer? How much water can these units realalisticly develope pre winter?

For this winter all I have done so far was to pull out the battery trickel charge it every 45 days, also added some additive (heat- brand) to the fuel tank and removed all spark plugs, squirted some 30/ weight motor oil into the engine cyinders, then replaced the spark plugs. The engine only has 40 or less hours on it since 01/08 and at that time the stator fluids were changed.

[rookie101]

I change mine once a year as part of my winterizing. The oil is always crystal clean when I change it, but I feel you should still do it, or at least check it to look for contamination which would be an indication that something is wrong.

Better to catch a problem sooner than later. Also once you have changed the oils you will see how easy it is.

Aaron

[WAJetboating]

Maintenance is recommended by Mercury every 50-100 hours (depending upon the maintenance action). "Winterization" includes several standard maintenance steps. Here's the official procedure, straight from Mercury via a personal phone call.

-----
In a small outboard fuel tank, mix fresh non-alcohol/ethanol gasoline with the recommended amount of fuel stabilizer and Mercury Quickleen. Add twice the normal amount of Mercury Premium Plus 2-stroke oil. (Note: Mercury calls this “witch’s brew”.)

Disconnect the main fuel tank hose from the engine’s inline fuel filter and connect the outboard fuel tank hose in its place. Connect water line to flush port and turn on water. Start and idle engine.

Run until smell of exhaust changes, indicating that “witch’s brew” has made it through the entire engine. Stop engine. Disconnect temp fuel tank and drain any remaining contents into main fuel tank.

Place a catch container below vapor separator drain plug, remove drain plug, drain vapor separator, and reinstall plug. Direct quote from factory tech: “You do not want fuel pooled in the vapor separator all winter long.” (Note: This is the first reference I’ve seen anywhere relating to winterizing the vapor separator.)

Restart engine with no fuel tank connected and wait until engine stalls. Remove key from ignition and disconnect battery. Do NOT turn key to “ON” or “START” positions again, as this will enable fuel pump.

Shut off water, disconnect from flush port, and wait for water to finish draining.

Reconnect main fuel tank hose.

Drain main fuel tank and leave empty. Use fuel stabilizer (Sta-Bil or Mercury Fuel Additive) if tank cannot be drained.

My own additions:

Replace fuel/water separating filter with new, empty filter. Mercury part number 35-18458Q4, ~$22.

Replace inline fuel filter with new, empty filter. Mercury part number 35-889615, ~$8.50.

In Spring, replace spark plugs after first full tank of fuel has been consumed. NGK part number BPZ8HS-10, stock number 3133, ~$6 each, do not substitute.

Note that these instructions do not include changing the front and rear jetdrive lube, which is a vital part of winterization that should be performed at the same time.

-----
Here are the instructions for annual maintenance on the jetdrive:

There are two lube areas on the M2: The front of the impeller shaft (where the driveshaft and impeller shaft are connected via a set of bevel gears) and the rear of the impeller shaft (inside the stator). To do this job you’ll need a metric socket set, large flatblade screwdriver, 1/4 inch Allen wrench, two bottles of Mercury Premium Plus Gear Lube, Mercury lube hand pump, oil drain pan, wire brush, thread sealant, antiseize, and blue (medium strength) Loctite.

Adjust the trailer jack so the ride plate on the jetdrive is level.

Remove the center (fill/drain) plug in front of the intake grate. Use a large flatblade so you don’t ding up the screw. Don’t lose the little fiber washer underneath the screw.

Remove the off-center (vent) plug. The lube will begin draining. Inspect the lube for white streaks or foam (indicates water) or metal specks (indicates wear in the bevel gears). Let the lube drain into the pan while you begin working on the stator lube.

Disconnect the steering and thrust reverser cables.

Remove the four bolts holding the steering nozzle and thrust reverser to the jetdrive. Remove the assembly and set it aside.

Remove the four bolts holding the stator to the jetdrive. The stator will probably “stick” gently to the wear ring for now.

Return to the front lube area. Screw the pump hose into the center hole. Install the pump into the first bottle of lube. Begin pumping. You’ll use all of the first bottle and some of the second. Switch bottles when necessary. Eventually, the lube will start coming out of the off-center vent hole, which has a tube inside; when the lube is full it reaches the top of the tube and comes down through the vent hole.

Reinstall the off-center vent screw with its fiber washer and a dab of thread sealant on its threads. Unscrew the pump hose and reinstall the centered fill screw in the same way. The front lube is done.

Return to the stator area with the drain pan. Position the pan under the front of the stator. Pull STRAIGHT rearward on the stator to release it from the wear ring. If it sticks, tap gently with a rubber or plastic mallet. Continue pulling STRAIGHT back until the stator slides off the end of the impeller shaft. Lube will immediately begin draining. Set the stator face down on the drain pan to finish draining. Inspect the lube for white streaks or foam (indicates water).

It is important to remove and reinstall the stator straight along the impeller shaft so the impeller seal is not damaged.

Once the stator has drained, remove the center hex screw from the tip of the stator cone. Turn the stator over and let the remaining lube drain out. There’s always a little residual lube in there and this lets it all come out.

Inspect the impeller and wear ring for nicks, dings, and damage.

While the stator is draining, use the wire brush to clean the threads of all eight screws removed from the rear of the jetdrive.

Once the stator is completely drained, gently reinstall it on the back of the wear ring. Reinstall the associated screws using a dab of thread sealant, antiseize, or a very small amount of blue Loctite. Tighten in rotation and don’t overdo it; you’re tightening stainless steel bolts into aluminum threads. The service manual has torque specs but I just use my judgement.

Reinstall the center hex plug with a dab of thread sealant. Remove the top hex plug. Insert the lube pump hose (it won’t thread, you’ll have to hold it) and begin pumping. Fill until the lube reaches the bottom of the fill hole’s threads. Reinstall the top hex plug with a dab of thread sealant. The rear lube is done.

Reinstall the steering nozzle and thrust reverser assembly using a dab of thread sealant, antiseize, or a very small amount of blue Loctite. Again, tighten in rotation and don’t overdo it; you’re tightening stainless steel bolts into aluminum threads.

Reconnect the steering and thrust reverser cables. Confirm smooth operation of both from the driver’s seat. All done!

Time to complete: ~2 hours the first time, ~1 hour once you’ve done it before.

[rookie101]

Great write up, but I never remove anything to change the stator oil. Simply put the shifter in the forward position, and use a long extension to get at the allen head plugs. Takes about ten minuets this way.

Aaron

[WAJetboating]

Then how do you drain all of the stator lube? If you're removing the lower (center) plug, you're only draining down to that level. There's a lot more lube in there you're not draining, and you may not drain (or even know about) water that gets in, which would tell you that the impeller shaft seal is failing.

I have heard of people sticking tubing through the drain holes and sucking the lube out with a pump, but again there's no way to get everything out.

So... are you just draining and replacing a small portion of the lube? Or do you have some other system? I'm quite interested.

[rookie101]

Yes, I use a hose and a vacuum pump to get all the fluid in the lower part of the stator. You may miss a tiny amount this way but you will still see any contamination in the fluid, and if you change the fluid like I do every fall (about 25-30 hours of use) the amount is to small to worry about.

Also doing it this way I still end up adding the recommended 550 ml, so if I'm missing any at all it's a very small amount.


Aaron

[SeadooMike]

well let me tell you. I just bought a used 2000 seadoo challenger with the mercruiser v-6. I wanted to do all of the PM's. When I went to pull down the stator valve, it was a mess. The milky fluid went everywhere. My stator assembly looked like it ran a rock through it. The fins were all tore up. Needless to say, I bought a used one on ebay for $270.00. I am upset that the previous owner did'nt change the fluid as recommended. So my advise, take the time to do it right. A little mess and some time will save you in the long run.

[WAJetboating]

When I went to pull down the stator valve, it was a mess. The milky fluid went everywhere. My stator assembly looked like it ran a rock through it. The fins were all tore up.

Just to confirm, you do know that there is no relationship between the contaminated stator lube and the condition of the stator vanes, right? Obviously the previous owner had something pass through his jetdrive - most likely a tine from his intake grate or a rock.

Are you missing any tines from your intake grate? Do you have a HydroSurge (moveable) intake grate? If so, you should replace it before it fails. A tine passing through the jetdrive causes exactly the kind of damage you saw, and can also damage the impeller (another $400). A replacement fixed grate is around $150, the cheapest insurance you can buy.

Hope this helps!

[SeadooMike]

Good to know...yes the stator vanes were cracked, and damaged. Looked like sand or gravel have been running through it. The intake grate looked to be ok from the outside. WHat do you think causes the milky gear oil? It had a ton of water in it.
Just to confirm, you do know that there is no relationship between the contaminated stator lube and the condition of the stator vanes, right? Obviously the previous owner had something pass through his jetdrive - most likely a tine from his intake grate or a rock.

[SeadooMike]

Oh, let me add to this, talking about the damaged stator. The drive plate that the stator bolts to underneath was damaged also. It was bent upwards. So the whole assembly took on a pretty good hit. I think this is what caused water to leak in. When I took it all down, I saw the damaged stator assembly. The hit was on the right hand side. The boat would not turn to the right at regular and high speeds, only at idle. SO this made me pull it all down after talking to a dealer. Anyway, I think thats where the water leaked in, and probably sand and other crap from the water. I am replacing the entire assembly and the bent plate. It can't hurt, and hopefully it will cure the turning right problem...the steering wheel turns just fine, and the jet drive truns just fine, and freely, when on the trailer.

[WAJetboating]

The drive plate that the stator bolts to underneath was damaged also. It was bent upwards.

That would be the ride plate.

So the whole assembly took on a pretty good hit. I think this is what caused water to leak in. When I took it all down, I saw the damaged stator assembly. The hit was on the right hand side. The boat would not turn to the right at regular and high speeds, only at idle.

WOW, that must have been some impact. The water in the stator indicates a problem with the impeller shaft seal, a damaged impeller shaft, or both. I certainly hope it's JUST the stator and its seal. Tearing down the jetdrive to replace the impeller shaft requires lifting the engine.

I am replacing the entire assembly and the bent plate. It can't hurt, and hopefully it will cure the turning right problem...the steering wheel turns just fine, and the jet drive truns just fine, and freely, when on the trailer.

Agreed. I would replace everything from the impeller rearward. New stator with a new seal, new ride plate, etc. Take a careful look at the impeller, too. Use a straightedge to confirm it's not bent and doesn't have any unusual marks back where it enters the stator. No sense in damaging a new stator with a damaged impeller shaft - if it's damaged you should replace the impeller shaft at the same time. Hopefully that won't be necessary.

Check the wear ring, too. The stator assembly mounts against it. Be sure the mounting surface is flat, the screw threads aren't damaged, etc. All that impact force was transmitted through the ride plate, to the stator, to the wear ring, to the jetdrive housing, and finally to the hull. They ALL felt it. Inspect everything.

Report back!

[SeadooMike]

Well, Im pissed...I replaced the stator assembly, and ride plate. The boat still won't turn to the right at speeds at over 18-20...these worn and bent parts needed to be replaced anyway, but I was hoping it was the root of the problem. From what I could see, the shaft was ok. Just the stator assembly was all chewed up and the plate was bent that it mounts to. I had to order the SS screws and the plate. After waiting for the parts I took it for a ride. NO CHANGE! What a disapointment. I spent hours and about $400 on these parts and it changed nothing! Not steering, speed, nothing.

If anyone has any help with steering problems, please let me know. I guess I could try to replace the steering cable...but I followed a dealers reccomendation to change out the bent ride plate first.

[WAJetboating]

The boat still won't turn to the right at speeds at over 18-20... NO CHANGE! What a disapointment. I spent hours and about $400 on these parts and it changed nothing! Not steering, speed, nothing. If anyone has any help with steering problems, please let me know. I guess I could try to replace the steering cable...but I followed a dealers reccomendation to change out the bent ride plate first.

OK, time to start debugging. Now that you have new parts, please carefully describe exactly what happens and when. Can you turn the wheel lock to lock when on the trailer? Does the steering nozzle follow the wheel? How about sitting still in the water? What does it feel like when it won't turn? Does this change happen suddenly, or is there a transition speed where it gets harder/rougher/etc.?

First thought is to check for interference between the thrust reverser and the steering nozzle. It should be impossible to have them touch each other.

Report back, we'll try to help!

[SeadooMike]

Yes when its on the trailer, the steering wheel moves just fine and the jet in the back moves left and right without any problems...when I am ideling, it will go fine to right or left. When I pick up speed, to around 18ish, it won't turn to the right anymore up to full throddle. SO if I want to turn right, I have to stop the boat to a slow speed, like around 10, then turn right. It makes no sence what its doing....any advise would be appreciated.

[WAJetboating]

Yes when its on the trailer, the steering wheel moves just fine and the jet in the back moves left and right without any problems...when I am ideling, it will go fine to right or left. When I pick up speed, to around 18ish, it won't turn to the right anymore up to full throddle.

I suspect interference between your thrust reverser and steering nozzle. As you increase speed and thrust, the reverser (or perhaps something else) is coming into contact with the steering nozzle and preventing it from turning. See if you can wiggle something back there such that it comes into contact with the steering nozzle - or perhaps the opposite, see if the steering nozzle can move into contact with something else.

There aren't any parts on the jetdrive's exterior that are supposed to move based on throttle setting, engine thrust, or water speed. So it has to be something that has slop in it that isn't supposed to be there, and gets pushed by the thrust or the movement through the water. Wiggle things until you find it.

Report back!

[SeadooMike]

There isn't any interference that I can see. It moves freely from all the way left to all the way right when on the trailer. This is why I though maybe the damaged stator assembly and the bent (on the right hand side) of the ride plate was maybe the cause. But It didn't change 1 thing. Not neccessarilry a waste of money, but it didn't change the steering issue.

I am thinking maybe its a bad steering cable. I don't know what else it could be.

[WAJetboating]

The basic function of the steering cable works, or you wouldn't be turning both directions at ANY speed.

One more idea: Is it related to the position of the thrust reverser (F-N-R) lever or throttle lever? Try those in various positions and see if the steering problem shows up out of the water.

Otherwise, it almost has to be mechanical interference. It works on the trailer and at low speeds, so the problem is caused by higher thrust or water speed. That means something must be moving one way due to thrust or water speed, and relaxing back into its "rest" position when you back off of thrust or water speed.

How about this test: Get the boat moving fast (so the problem exists), then quickly drop the engine to idle and try the steering. With the engine at idle the hull won't respond to steering changes very fast so this is a safe test even at high speeds. You'll have to try the steering before the hull slows down much. If this permits the steering wheel to turn all the way at high hull speeds, it's thrust related. If it's still difficult to turn the wheel even though the engine is idling, it's speed related.

Report back!

[SeadooMike]

I will try that. I am hoping I can put it back in the water over the next week and try to nail it down. Thanks for the ideas. I will report back If I can find a solution.