16 replies to this topic

[poprbear]

Hello everyone I need to pick your brains for a second. I took the boat out for the second time this past Saturday and remembered to put the plug in before I put the boat in. My son and I were out for about an hour and decieded to head back in it was very foggy and cool. I was having a hard time getting it to plane out as we were heading back in. I have about a ten minute trip at 5mph back to the ramp, the engines started to idle ruff. I make it to the ramp turn off the engines and go get the trailer. I pulled the boat out and into the parking lot and undid the drain plug, WELL the water came SHOOTING out of the hole. I opened the engine compartment and the engines were under water. Over the manifolds, I could not believe there was that much water. I have a 25 minute ride home there was still water in the compartment, enough to turn on the bilge and have it pumping out.
Does anyone have any ideas where that much water could be coming from? Remember after the first time out I did remove the jet pumps. Now I can't get it started. I have tried for 3 days. Water must have gotten into something.
Please if anyone has any ideas pass them along. I'm not liking this powerboat stuff too much right now.
Thanks in advance
John

[Kevin Leclair]

Geez!!! The only thing I can think of is that you might have leak somewhere. This sounds like a job for tiggerman!

[tiggerman]

First thing to do right now, is remove the sparkplugs, and spin the motors over . Don't forget to ground the plugs on the grounding posts located on the top of the magneto cover (front of the engine). Do this to see if there is any water in the cylinder. Next, spray fogging oil in each cylinder with the piston at the bottom of its stroke. Put the plugs back in and crank it up. If it cranks, thats good. Shut it off and spray fogging oil in the cylinders again. Spin it over, do it again. Take it back to the water and put it in- find that leak! Look to see if the water is coming past your carbon rings, or if a hose has come loose in the engine compartment. It probably is the carbon rings. You can loosen the rear clamps and slide that belows forward a bit to see if it will seal. Make sure the stainless steel ring is still held in place on the drive shaft. You can pry it aft, but it should not move forward. Once you have decided that you have your water leak fixed, crank it up, and run it. Run it for a while. You are trying to get as much water out as you can, if the engine did ingest some. If the water was up over the manifolds, chances are you did. Doing this can and will get water in the crankcase and in the bearings. The big thing about this is it inhibits lubrication, and rusts internal parts. Ideally, this would have been what to do right away, after it happened.

[tiggerman]

First thing to do right now, is remove the sparkplugs, and spin the motors over .

Oh yeah, don't forget to put a towel over the plug holes.... unless you want to take a bath......

[poprbear]

First thing to do right now, is remove the sparkplugs, and spin the motors over .

Oh yeah, don't forget to put a towel over the plug holes.... unless you want to take a bath......

tiggerman, thanks for the help. I am going to try and leave work a little early and try what you suggest. Looks like rain but maybe it will hold out long enough for me try it.
I will let you know how I make out
Thanks
John

[tiggerman]

No problem.... I would rather get rained on on the outside, than to have those engines sit any longer with water in them...... If you have a digital camera, take some photos of your carbon ring seals on your driveshafts and post them. They should be flat on the contact surfaces.... check your bellows hoses (they hold the carbon rings) for tears. If you cant see the seals, take the plastic covers off. Look at my driveshaft seal carrier novel and you will find a photo of what the carbon ring and hose looks like.

[poprbear]

tiggerman THANK YOU THANK YOU I followed your advise to the letter on getting the engines started and it WORKED. I pulled the plugs and sprayed in the fogging agent and cranked the motors. I did this several times. I then used my compressor and air hose and blew out the cylinders. Cleaned the spark plugs and replaced them. I also blew out the magneto. I picked up the rubber cover and the entire plug was soaked. I unplugged it and blew out the wires also. I tried the port side engine first but had no luck. Tried the starboard and it went right off. Hooked up the hose and let it run for about 10 to 15 minutes. Pulled the plugs on the port side again and did the hole procedure over again. Put the plugs back in and it just fired right up. Ran the hose thru that one also for 10 to 15 minutes. First half of the problem fixed now on the flooding. How do I get to see the pictures you are talking about in your last post?
Again Thanks. I will try to get down to the water on Friday to see where the water leak is coming from.
John

[tiggerman]

http://seadoosportbo...p?showtopic=161 is the post. There are numerous pictures there, about the 10th pic is the carbon ring setup. From the right side of the pic (aft) you see the 2 big clamps on the bellows hose. In front of the 2nd clamp, the carbon ring is visible- the sealing surface is not. That is where that ring and the next piece (big stainless steel piece) mate to one another. Just in front of the stainless steel piece, you see an o-ring, which may or may not be on your boat. The upgrade to that oring is a C clip. The purpose is to hold the stainless steel ring in place on the shaft. If the clip is gone or you can see the oring, the stainless steel piece can slide away from the carbon, letting the engine compartment flood. Those two pieces must, I mean MUST be touching and there has to be some tension in that hose, otherwise there is not a good seal. This is where alot of cavitation comes from. The rest of it is the PTO boot with its 2 oetiker clamps. I took the clamps off and am using nylon wire ties instead. The metal ones are hard to install/remove. This has got to be where your water is coming from. Or, you have a hose off somewhere.
Also, you never want to run the engines on the hose out of the water for more than a few minutes at a time: the carbon rings need water to cool them, and they will get very hot without it. It may damage them and cause them to leak. You need to run that baby in the lake/river just as soon as you can to get the rest of the water out of it. Fog it really well in the meantime.

[poprbear]

Thanks tiggerman, I checked out the pics, now I know where to look. As far as getting the boat to the river or lake no can doo. I live on Long Island surrounded by salt water. No fresh water lakes or rivers. The best I can do is the hose.

John

[tiggerman]

Understood. If you fogged it well, you may be OK. It didn't shut down by itself, you shut it down when this happened, right? It may not have gotten alot of water in it.
If you must doo it while on the trailer, push the stainless steel ring aft, and remove the c clip or slide the oring forward , whichever, and then push the stainless ring forward again. This takes it out of contact with the carbon ring and then you can run it as long as needed on the hose. Good luck! Let us know how it goes.....

[poprbear]

tiggerman you are right I made it back to the dock and shut the engines down myself. If I was to run the motors for more than 3 or 4 minutes to just flush them out after an outting you suggest loosening the carbon ring? But not just to flush them?
I will check the carbon ring.

John

[tiggerman]

Yes, if you run them longer than that on the trailer, you risk damaging the carbon ring and stainless ring. A lot of heat is generated by the two rubbing together. They stay cool when in the water, because the water COOLS them. If you are just flushing them, it is OK to run them even 5 minutes maximum. Alternatively, you can install a wye on the garden hose that will allow a short piece to go up in the engine bay and drip on the ring. That would work too. It's just as easy either way.

[poprbear]

Thanks again I will keep you posted

John

[poprbear]

tiggerman I found the problem. My wife and I took the boat up to the water late yesterday afternoon and dropped it in. Waited a few minutes and no water was coming into the bilge. Started the starboard side engine let it run for a few minutes and again no water. Started the port side and instantly water was moving around in the bilge. Turns out it was what looks like a freeze out plug in the manifold. I used some marine tex on it and let it cure over night. It was like steel this morning. Ran down to the dock and tried it out NO WATER. Really didn't go out the weather is a little cool and very very windy. Hope to try her out tomorrow.

Again Thanks for all of your help

John

[Kevin Leclair]

Good job on figuring out the problem!

[poprbear]

I am just relieved that it was something simple. I had gone to the local dealer to bring it in when I couldn't get it started $88. an hour. They couldn't get it in for 2 to 3 weeks. Thanks to tiggerman I got the engines running and found the leak and repaired it for $10. This really is a great forum and a really great group of people.
THANKS for being here.
John

[tiggerman]

Yay!!!!! You did good! I'll bill ya later...