25 replies to this topic

[eoc1212]

Hello,

I read everything I could about this boat and the ceramic washers... have a couple more questions as I think this may be my issue... but I want to confirm.

- So... how the heck would I know if my ceramic washers are bad/broken, etc??? What happens when these washers break? I bought my boat used so I think my washers may have already been broken...

Also... are dealers recognizing this issue and is replacement under warranty? Hope so... my SC is still under warranty.

Thanks...

Edwin
2006 Challenger 180 SE

[no1stumper]

2006 and up Seadoos came with thicker washers, due to them not heating up and breaking. I am not sure where you could take it to get it under warranty. I have heard of Perry Performance Group down in Florida that will do it under warranty, but you have to actually take off the supercharger and send it to them. Other than that, you will never know until you call your local dealership

[eoc1212]

Thanks... yeah... I have read about the washers and issues. I am just not sure how I know if my boat has this issue... what difference is there in the boat when these washers fail? How does the engine sound or how does the boat drive differently? Since I bought it used... I don't have anything to compare it too...

txs!

[no1stumper]

You will not hear the superchargers at all any more and you will see a drop in your rpms. I would suggest getting it looked at before that point though

[eoc1212]

sorry to keep asking the same thing... but i have nothing to compare too. what do the superchargers sound like??? again... I have a feeling that my boat has had this issue since i purchased it. from a stop... I hit the gas, the boat takes off (loudly!) and I don't hear any changes in the way anything sounds. It continues to run this way until it's full speed and there is no change in sound... just gets louder. There is also a lot of vibration. I assumed this was normal since others have commented how loud the boat it... but it is all relative. I think it is very loud while others might not think it's so bad.

A friend of mine said he thought it sounded bogged down... not sure...

[Kevin Leclair]

I think your best bet would be just run it by your local dealer and have them inspect it. They will be able to tell you if anything wrong is going on. Is your boat still under warranty?

It is very difficult for anyone here to be able to diagnose any type of problem since we can't hear your boat or drive it to see what might be going on.

[no1stumper]

sorry to keep asking the same thing... but i have nothing to compare too. what do the superchargers sound like??? again... I have a feeling that my boat has had this issue since i purchased it. from a stop... I hit the gas, the boat takes off (loudly!) and I don't hear any changes in the way anything sounds. It continues to run this way until it's full speed and there is no change in sound... just gets louder. There is also a lot of vibration. I assumed this was normal since others have commented how loud the boat it... but it is all relative. I think it is very loud while others might not think it's so bad.

A friend of mine said he thought it sounded bogged down... not sure...

I would say based on sound a supercharger makes a whinning or swooshing noise. But that can't be misconscrewed with different types of engine, superchargers. I would take the advice as above take it to a dealer, let them do what they do, and have them to call you before the diagnose so you know exactly what your getting yourself into. I know that what dealerships charge seems alot, but its better to get it fixed now than waiting,and something happeneing to the engine and having to replace it for as much as you paid for the boat practicaly

[thorvald]

I had mine go on my 4Tec Seadoo SC and it was VERY obvious. The RPM dropped about 600-1000 for top end and you could no longer hear the "Whizzing" noise you hear when you rev the motor with the seat (or engine cover open) off.

Just try to reach max RPM, if you are 600-1000 short, almost for sure your SC is messing up (mine was a clutch issue, slipping too much).

Cheers
Tim

[no1stumper]

And that is 90% of the time the causing factor is the clutch. If your not sure what rpm you were running you need to take it to the dealership. Keep us updated!!!!!

[Dale180se]

Hello,

I read everything I could about this boat and the ceramic washers... have a couple more questions as I think this may be my issue... but I want to confirm.

- So... how the heck would I know if my ceramic washers are bad/broken, etc??? What happens when these washers break? I bought my boat used so I think my washers may have already been broken...

Also... are dealers recognizing this issue and is replacement under warranty? Hope so... my SC is still under warranty.

Thanks...

Edwin
2006 Challenger 180 SE

You could check washers by taking air intake hose off, With fingers try spinning wheel. Should be hard to spin, you should not be able to rotate. If they spin ease there shot.

[keviseeb]

You could check washers by taking air intake hose off, With fingers try spinning wheel. Should be hard to spin, you should not be able to rotate. If they spin ease there shot.

Dale is correct, that is the way we check the washers here at the dealership. The sound a supercharger makes is somewhere between a whine and a whistle noticeable while accelerating from idle up to about 3,000 RPM. If a clutch pack goes bad you will notice an immediate loss of 1,000 RPM, typically you will find that 6,800 to 7,000 RPM is all that it will do and the whine/whistle will be gone as well. If you check the blades yourself by attempting to turn them please be careful to reinstall the rubber hose correctly and tightly. If your boat is in warranty or extended warranty it should be covered. Obvious abuse may be the only reason for turn down and we haven't had that happen to us from Sea Doo. Keep in mind we have not replaced a supercharger on a sport boat, we have replaced both ceramic and titanium washered superchargers in the RXP and one RXT models. Typically the people were ocean riders who did not practice throttle management while airborne. After learning the correct way to ride we haven't had any repeat customers for any supercharger repairs we have done.

Kevin Seeber
Kingsland Marine

[no1stumper]

Dale is correct, that is the way we check the washers here at the dealership. The sound a supercharger makes is somewhere between a whine and a whistle noticeable while accelerating from idle up to about 3,000 RPM. If a clutch pack goes bad you will notice an immediate loss of 1,000 RPM, typically you will find that 6,800 to 7,000 RPM is all that it will do and the whine/whistle will be gone as well. If you check the blades yourself by attempting to turn them please be careful to reinstall the rubber hose correctly and tightly. If your boat is in warranty or extended warranty it should be covered. Obvious abuse may be the only reason for turn down and we haven't had that happen to us from Sea Doo. Keep in mind we have not replaced a supercharger on a sport boat, we have replaced both ceramic and titanium washered superchargers in the RXP and one RXT models. Typically the people were ocean riders who did not practice throttle management while airborne. After learning the correct way to ride we haven't had any repeat customers for any supercharger repairs we have done.

Kevin Seeber
Kingsland Marine

Whats the "correct" way to manage your throttle while air bourne? Are you talking about backing off? And does this just apply to supercharged motors?

[eoc1212]

So I had to work all day today and my wife took the boat to the boat dealer... Berts Mega Mall in Covina, CA. I wrote out exactly what I have read here and what we were experiencing with the boat... for her to be able to explain what the issues were and what we were experiencing to the service dept. The service rep told her it was probably the pump or the seals and that it'd be $150 to have it checked out. If this wasn't found to be the problem and the issue couldn't be duplicated, we'd have to pay the $150 and be on our way. OR we could pay another $200 to have the boat lake tested. if it was theprobelm, the pump would be covered int he extended warranty and the inspection fee would be waived. OH AND THE KICKER... The service rep told my wife that our boat didn't have a supercharger!!!!!! She tried me on my cell but I was in meetings most of the morning. Not knowing what to do, she brought it back home for a total round trip of 100 miles...

I got the call when she got back and I haven't been this pissed in a while. The idiot didn't even know our boat had a supercharger and had no clue about ceramic washers. Watse of a day and a huge waste of GAS!!!

I am back to square one. I am going to inspect it myself... I am a decent car and motorcycle mechanic... so I hope that helps with this. But I do not have a service manual... would someone be so kind to scan that page of the manual with the air intake hose? So I can see exactly what I should be doing? Or is there somewhere I can download the manual so I don't have to wait for it...

man am I frustrated... thanks for the help...

Edwin

[Dale180se]

So I had to work all day today and my wife took the boat to the boat dealer... Berts Mega Mall in Covina, CA. I wrote out exactly what I have read here and what we were experiencing with the boat... for her to be able to explain what the issues were and what we were experiencing to the service dept. The service rep told her it was probably the pump or the seals and that it'd be $150 to have it checked out. If this wasn't found to be the problem and the issue couldn't be duplicated, we'd have to pay the $150 and be on our way. OR we could pay another $200 to have the boat lake tested. if it was theprobelm, the pump would be covered int he extended warranty and the inspection fee would be waived. OH AND THE KICKER... The service rep told my wife that our boat didn't have a supercharger!!!!!! She tried me on my cell but I was in meetings most of the morning. Not knowing what to do, she brought it back home for a total round trip of 100 miles...

I got the call when she got back and I haven't been this pissed in a while. The idiot didn't even know our boat had a supercharger and had no clue about ceramic washers. Watse of a day and a huge waste of GAS!!!

I am back to square one. I am going to inspect it myself... I am a decent car and motorcycle mechanic... so I hope that helps with this. But I do not have a service manual... would someone be so kind to scan that page of the manual with the air intake hose? So I can see exactly what I should be doing? Or is there somewhere I can download the manual so I don't have to wait for it...

man am I frustrated... thanks for the help...

Edwin

Hi edwin, If you have and 180se its easy to find air in take hose...Open rear port side engine acsess hatch and you will see a black box with an electrical componet on top.. A three inch hose gos directly from air box to the super charger.. It takes two minutes to check!! Hope this helps you..

[keviseeb]

Hi edwin, If you have and 180se its easy to find air in take hose...Open rear port side engine acsess hatch and you will see a black box with an electrical componet on top.. A three inch hose gos directly from air box to the super charger.. It takes two minutes to check!! Hope this helps you..

First let me address no1stumpers question about throttle management. Yes, you need to back off the throttle on any engine whether supercharged or not as the the computer rev limiter strategy is not fast enough to keep up with sudden unloading of the jet drive when the engine is at or near peak RPM. The 2008 PWC X models with the 255 HP engines have a modified rev limiter strategy that cuts in a little earlier for that reason but, to save the supercharger clutch pack, you must back off the throttle the microsecond the pump unloads as the boat or PWC becomes airborne. There is a reason professional offshore racers have 3 people in them, a navigator, wheelman, and a throttle jockey! In other words all boats require Captain's skills of some level.

Edwin, although I sympathize with your situation we, as a dealer, will not render an opinion as to the services another dealer gives. We promised Kevin Leclair we would remain impartial and just give you the facts. The fact is there are at least 14 pages (pages 53 to 67 in the 2007 shop manual) in the service manual on washer replacement alone requiring at least 4 tools that are not sold to the public but are mandatory to do the job correctly. Additonally normal tools such as micrometers, torque wrenches, and others are required. I know you are frustrated but please have a dealer do it, it is a warranty item anyway if your boat is still within the time frame for warranty coverage. It is difficult to remain impartial on this one, maybe you can locate another sport boat dealer more to your liking. I wish we could help but unfortunately we are on the right coast of the country!

Kevin Seeber
Kingsland Marine

[eoc1212]

Cool... thanks for all the help guys! I definitely am not going to try and change the washers or do any work on it myself. I just want to inspect the washers myself... which it sounds like I can do that fairly easily through the air intake. I am going to check it out this evening...

Thanks again for the direction and help!!!


Edwin

[keviseeb]

Cool... thanks for all the help guys! I definitely am not going to try and change the washers or do any work on it myself. I just want to inspect the washers myself... which it sounds like I can do that fairly easily through the air intake. I am going to check it out this evening...

Thanks again for the direction and help!!!


Edwin

Edwin, one final thing, when you turn the blower it should be difficult to turn as it is torqued to 20 foot pounds. You should be able to get it to turn but it should be tight.

Kevin Seeber
Kingsland Marine

[Dale180se]

First let me address no1stumpers question about throttle management. Yes, you need to back off the throttle on any engine whether supercharged or not as the the computer rev limiter strategy is not fast enough to keep up with sudden unloading of the jet drive when the engine is at or near peak RPM. The 2008 PWC X models with the 255 HP engines have a modified rev limiter strategy that cuts in a little earlier for that reason but, to save the supercharger clutch pack, you must back off the throttle the microsecond the pump unloads as the boat or PWC becomes airborne. There is a reason professional offshore racers have 3 people in them, a navigator, wheelman, and a throttle jockey! In other words all boats require Captain's skills of some level.

Edwin, although I sympathize with your situation we, as a dealer, will not render an opinion as to the services another dealer gives. We promised Kevin Leclair we would remain impartial and just give you the facts. The fact is there are at least 14 pages (pages 53 to 67 in the 2007 shop manual) in the service manual on washer replacement alone requiring at least 4 tools that are not sold to the public but are mandatory to do the job correctly. Additonally normal tools such as micrometers, torque wrenches, and others are required. I know you are frustrated but please have a dealer do it, it is a warranty item anyway if your boat is still within the time frame for warranty coverage. It is difficult to remain impartial on this one, maybe you can locate another sport boat dealer more to your liking. I wish we could help but unfortunately we are on the right coast of the country!

Kevin Seeber
Kingsland Marine

As a dealer you might want to say that! But if my supercharger needed repaired I would not think twice..Its not rocket science! All tools are on line..

[keviseeb]

As a dealer you might want to say that! But if my supercharger needed repaired I would not think twice..Its not rocket science! All tools are on line..

Dale, I don't mean to make more of working on a Sea Doo engine more than it really is however everyone may not be as technically adept as you appear to be. My major reason for staying with a dealer on this one is the expense to the customer. Why pay for something when it should be covered under warranty? It is heartbreaking to see someone come in with a box of parts who got in over their heads and want us to put the pieces back together AND to have Sea Doo pay for it. It is only good business to get Sea Doo to pay their share, and as a Platinum dealer it is good business for us too since we get 110% of our normal labor price for warranty work. Maybe some dealers don't step up to the plate because they are limited to 75% of their normal labor rate as a non Platinum dealer, I have know way of knowing that for sure though. Finally, I stand corrected on buying tools online, recently RIVA and others have been manufacturing some tools of their own plus selling OEM tools.....www.4-tecperformance.com is a link to some of these tools.

Kevin Seeber
Kingsland Marine

[eoc1212]

Last questions (probably not!) ... but so I am clear... I just remove the large air intake hose, reach into the supercharger and try and turn the blower... like a 1/2 a turn or so. Like you mentioned Kevin, it should be tight to turn because of the 20 lbs of torque... but it should turn with slight force. Now... if it spins freely, the washers likely failed or I have some other supercharger issue... all this sound correct?

And the last lame question... should I turn the blower in any certain direction or does that not matter.